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Readers' emails

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HPV Suspension Design


Re: Part 7 of your HPV articles.

It's probably too late to make the comment now but give that caster rise in bump leads to camber rise (negative) in cornering, wouldn't you assume that you could get away with less than 55 degrees for the arm angle and still get the desired camber in cornering without quite so extreme camber change in plain bump?  It would also enable you to use longer arms and hence less change in angles.

You know, it's getting harder to find a link to send you guys feedback!

Peter Bodon
Australia

Longer arms are heavier arms, and the angle of the semi-leading arms used as the starting point the angle of the Greenspeed steering tie-rods. Re feedback – there hasn’t been any change in the system but it will be completely overhauled in the near future.

Suggestion

I have a suggestion for future topics in the Zine. There are many members who drive older cars with basic injection systems. I suggest a series on the gains to be made from and the feasibility of fitting latest generation injection to older cars, and the gains from it, particularly in fuel economy. I have a personal interest in that I have a 92 Range Rover 3.9 with Lucas FI (14CUX) which does not have even a narrow band O2 sensor. I have updated the engine with a Thor BMW designed manifold and fitted a Unichip, along with modern 4 hole Bosch injectors. But economy is still terrible. Even on Commodores, Falcons etc, what is to be gained from fitting a factory or aftermarket system with WBO sensors, lean cruise, EDIS etc. Issues such as how to overcome problems like VSS compatability, BECM disabling, alarm disabling etc, setup of EDIS with parts suppliers could be discussed. I would be happy to volunteer my car as a test bed!

Phillip Armbruster
Australia

Engines

I like the articles on the Power Vs Torque thing and the realities of how actually develop more of both.

In the article on getting 180kW out of a NA Sube you give an example of the Honda S2000 and how it develops it's power/ torque through more revs. Honda I think are one of the big pioneers in 4 stroke power development through Mr Honda's efforts to beat the 2 strokes over the years. His belief was that 4 strokes were superior technology and he spent a lot of time, money and engineering development on making 4 strokes fast. You only need to look at the 5 cyl 125cc TT bikes that revved to 22,000rpm (with 7 speed gearboxes) from the late 60's. Or when the FIM limited the GP class to 500cc & 4 cylinders Honda responded with the V4, oval piston, 32 valve, 8 conrod and 8 sparkplug NR500 effectively making it a V8. Although it was never competitive I bet that the technology developed flows over into the current crop of Honda engine technology. It just further highlights that in order to make NA engines more powerful the technology needed is very complex and expensive. I also remember when 4 strokes were first developed for motocross bikes, I never thought that they would ever be powerful enough to beat a 2 stroke. But now they are the pick of the bunch albeit with a cubic advantage to offset the weight penalty.

Darren Roles
Australia

Power and Torque 1

Just read your article on torque and power. By far the best article on this subject that I have read, great job. I've read at least five different articles on this subject and had finally pieced together an understanding; if I had just read this one, I think it would have all been clear immediately. Thanks!

Glenn Ruhl
United States

Power and Torque 2

Thanks for you article on power and torque.  Taking the same train of though would it be possible for you to do one on working out the best gearing for a car.  I am talking about optimising tyre size, gearbox ratio's and final drive ration to keep the car on the optimum part of the power / torque curve. A spreadsheet would really help here as well. 

David Kagi
China

Event

I am the Event Co-Ordinator for the GV Car Club in Shepparton .  I am setting up a MAJOR DRIVING EVENT DAY at D.E.C.A Shepparton to try and endorse the youths of today to  take it to the track and not the street, i have been fighting this  battle for the past five years with great success as we now have several members in the club that were out right hoons on the street  and with time and holding these events they are also behind me in   getting it onto the track and not on the street. If i can change one persons views on street drags and burnouts for the   better its worth every minute spent.

The problem i run into is the cost in the hire and/or insurance. Just   for an example one young guy i have in the club was probably the   biggest hoon in the area, but with time and effort he now cant  stand the thought of street drags and burnouts and at the age of 21  he has over 40 1st place trophies for burnouts in some well   regarded events (see pic attached)Some thing that is always on my mind is if some one dosen't do these  sort of things for the youth it will get out of hand and there will  be no use for company's in this field and that covers a huge amount  of companies  as the youth wont bother doing cars up because the  police will have to come down on us all like a tone of bricks.

This event is looking to be held  on the 30th June 2007and what i am  putting together is hitting around the $8000 mark to hold the event and im asking if in any way (cash or Event prizes and  advertizerment) your business might be able to help by chipping in  either big or small, anything is a help to change the mind of  the    youth of today and future of  car nuts please contact me and we can  talk about how i can return the favor in promoting  you to the best of my ability. I have held  a number of events at Heathcote and  D.E.C.A in Shepparton   with great success and have the local police behind us . The last event had about 195 entries and the police did not have to stop one car. The car club will also promote and support your company in the future. Our club has worked hard over the last 5 years to get where we are  and have won Spring Nats and Show Us Ya Wheels the last two years  running plus have had several club cars featuring in car mags.  I have over 80 entries and its not even advertised as yet.  It will    be advertised on radio, 5,000 flyers. and the internet so it will   be in every ones face. I have just come away from setting a major event at DECA in Shepparton in April 2007 which attracted 195 entrants and about 800 spectators.  Thank you for taking the time read this proposal, and feel free to talk to me about this event as we can make  help and make it better for  the younger generation.  I have already attracted some big name cars for demos.

Steve Miller
GV CAR CLUB
0409869972
bringit@gvcarclub.com
www.gvcarclub.com

Weight and Per Person Fuel Consumption 1

I have to agree with the editorial “Driving Emotion, 2nd June 2007. Why can’t we buy a single or tandem seat light weight commuter vehicles?  Every day I commute in my 1350kg vehicle, one up, with less than 15kg luggage, while sitting in traffic surrounded by similar vehicles, mostly also with only one occupant.  What a waste.

It seems to me that cars are often sold on the basis of how people think they use them rather than how they actually do.  The vast  majority of my journeys are one up and, less often , two up.  I   don’t think that I am unique in that; many people own two seat   sports cars, for example.  On the occasions when I have had to  carry more, such as moving house, it has been very easy to hire  vehicles for the purpose.

Surely there is a market for vehicles that have greater weather and crash protection (i.e. some) than motorbikes/scooters, and don’t  require the inconvenience of carting around a helmet or wearing  leathers.  A reasonable amount of luggage space, enough to carry a weeks worth of shopping for two people or perhaps a young family, would be desirable too.

The Smart ForTwo probably currently comes closest in concept to what is being discussed but is too wide, too tall and, most critically ,  too heavy and too expensive (in comparison to what else can be    purchased for the same money).  A VW One-litre Car, built using   real world materials, perhaps in a low labour rate country, would    be perfect, certainly in concept.  The Mitsubishi Minicar i  probably fills the four seater role, where it is sold.

Apart from the Smart ForTwo, VW One-litre Car and Minicar i, perhaps Autospeed readers may be interested in:

Corbin Sparrow/Myers NMG: www.myersmotors.com

Clever: www.greencarcongress.com

Andrew McKellar
Australia

Weight and Per Person Fuel Consumption 2

In regards to your latest 'Driving Emotion' - Weight and per person fuel consumption - Driving Emotion

I think the ONLY reasonable/practical conclusion is that anyone driving solo should ride a motorcycle, which sounds just dandy to me! (2-wheeled commuter constantly fighting against the SUV'd masses)

PS - how good are the figures for say a lower performing Suzuki GS500 with 2 people onboard?

Conrad F Smith
Australia

Weight and Per Person Fuel Consumption 3

Energy Consumption Per Person Per Kilometre

Based on section 1.5.2.5 of the Victorian Bicycle Strategy 1991 (project managed by John McK Lambert)

Community concerns about the environment will result in initiatives that are likely to increase the numbers of potential bicyclists significantly.

Specifically this will relate to the effects on the environment of high rates of energy use, including increased levels of carbon dioxide and other global warming gases.

Bikes are the most energy efficient form of transport, and hence deserve to be encouraged as part of an overall program to ensure that Victorians use the most appropriate mode for any trip.

The original VBS paperwork will be somewhere in VicRoads archives.

Energy Use Per Person Per Kilometre In Original Vbs Document

Mode

Kilojoules/person/km

Car—driver only

4800-5800

Car and one passenger

2500-3000

Car and two passengers

1700-2100

Car and three passengers

1300-1600

Transit bus

2400-2600

Tram

1500-2500

Transit rail

1300-2300

Motorcycle

1900-2300

Moped

750-850

Pedestrian walker

200-260

Bicycle

90-210



Energy Use Per Person Per Kilometre From Spreadsheet Below

Mode

Kilojoules/ person/ km

Approximate litres of fuel per 100 km

Large Petrol Car—driver only

5780

15.1

Medium Petrol Car —driver only

5010

13.0

Travel by taxi

3970

11.3

Small Petrol Car—driver only

4280

11.1

Larger Diesel Car —driver only

4180

9.8

Medium Diesel Car —driver only

3640

8.5

1000 cc motorbike

3100

8.1

Small Diesel Car—driver only

3160

7.4

Travel by bus

2510

5.9

Travel by tram

2450

5.7

250 cc motorbike

2150

5.0

Small Diesel Car - one passenger

1580

4.1

Travel by train

1240

2.9

Small Diesel Car - two passengers

1060

2.8

50 cc Moped

890

2.3

Small Diesel Car - three passengers

800

2.1

Travel by bicycle

210

0.5

Walking

210

0.5



Note these are energy usage for "whole of life" including the energy used in making steel, aluminium, tyres, manufacture, fuel, oil, parts, losses in transmission for trams, et cetera. Actual likely life and total passenger kilometres are used.

As you can see, a car with two occupants is competitive with public transport. This is principally because at peak hour, return trips are near empty for public transport, thereby reducing occupancy, and public transport vehicles are generally very heavily built so that the energy in manufacture is high and the energy required to accelerated them is also high. In addition, peak travel requires a lot of public transport vehicles many of which are then under-utilised for the rest of the day.

Spreadsheet Data

MANUFACTURING ENERGY PER KM:

Note: One calorie = 4.186 kJ

Mode of travel:

Weight (kg)

Energy to build (MJ/kg)

Median life (years)

Annual travel (km)

Energy (Cal/km)

Travel by small car:

1000

101.8

10

15000

162

Travel by medium car:

1200

101.8

10

17200

170

Travel by larger car:

1400

101.8

10

19000

179

Travel by taxi:

1200

101.8

8

87500

42

Travel by bus:

13000

88.6

15

55000

334

Travel by tram:

35000

75.0

25

47500

528

Travel by train:

168000

75.0

15

140000

1433

Travel by 1000 cc motorbike:

260

122.2

8

10000

95

Travel by 250 cc motorbike:

125

122.2

8

8000

57

Travel by 50 cc moped:

25

110.0

8

4000

21

Travel by bicycle:

14

110.0

8

2500

18

FUEL AND OIL ENERGY PER KILOMETRE:

Mode of travel:

Kilometres per litre (km/l)

Energy per litre (MJ/l)

Fuel Energy per km (Cal/km)

Oil Energy per km (Cal/km)

Total Energy per km (Cal/km)

Travel by large petrol car:

8.5

38.4

1079

86

1165

Travel by large diesel car:

14.2

42.7

720

58

778

Travel by medium petrol car:

10.0

38.4

917

73

990

Travel by medium diesel car:

16.7

42.7

612

49

661

Travel by small petrol car:

12.0

38.4

764

61

825

Travel by small diesel car:

20.0

42.7

510

41

551

Travel by taxi:

5.0

35.0

1672

134

1806

Travel by bus:

2.0

42.7

5100

408

5508

Travel by tram:

2.1

42.7

4857

389

5246

Travel by train:

1.5

42.7

6800

544

7344

Travel by 1000 cc motorbike:

16.0

38.4

573

46

619

Travel by 250 cc motorbike:

23.0

38.4

399

32

431

Travel by 50 cc moped:

70.0

38.4

131

10

141

Travel by bicycle:

PERSONAL ENERGY USED PER KILOMETRE:

Mode of travel:

Commuters

Crew

Energy use per person (Cal/hr)

Mean speed (km/h)

Energy use per

Kilometre (Cal/km)

Travel by car: Driver only

1

135

24.0

6

Travel by car: One passenger

2

135

24.0

11

Travel by car: Two passengers

3

135

24.0

17

Travel by car: Three passengers

4

135

24.0

23

Travel by taxi:

2

1.0

135

24.0

17

Travel by bus:

10

1.2

135

20.0

68

Travel by tram:

10

2.1

135

15.0

90

Travel by train:

30

2.0

135

32.0

127

Travel by motorbike:

1

190

30.0

6

Travel by moped:

1

190

20.0

10

Travel by bicycle:

1

280

12.0

23

Walking:

1

270

5.5

49

ENERGY USED IN TYRE WEAR PER KILOMETRE:

Mode of travel:

Number of tyres

Weight of tyres

Energy to build (MJ/kg)

Average tyre life (km)

Energy use per km (Cal/km)

Travel by car:

4

9.5

140

40000

32

Travel by taxi:

4

9.5

140

40000

32

Travel by bus:

6

57.0

140

120000

95

Travel by tram:

Travel by train:

Travel by 1000 cc motorbike:

2

6.0

140

20000

20

Travel by 250 cc motorbike:

2

4.0

140

18000

15

Travel by 50 cc moped:

2

3.0

140

5000

40

Travel by bicycle:

2

0.7

140

5000

9

Walking:

SUMMARY OF ENERGY USED PER COMMUTER PER KM

Mode of travel:

Manufact-uring energy

Fuel & Oil energy

Energy use per commuter

Tyre energy use

Total Energy per km

USA Data

Total Energy per km

USA Data

(Cal/ person.km)

(KJ/ person.km)

Travel by larger petrol car: Driver only

179

1165

6

32

1382

1860

5780

7800

Travel by larger diesel car: Driver only

179

778

6

32

999

1860

4180

7800

Travel by medium petrol car: Driver only

170

990

6

32

1198

5010

Travel by medium diesel car: Driver only

170

990

6

32

869

3640

Travel by small petrol car: Driver only

162

825

6

32

1023

4280

Travel by small diesel car: Driver only

162

551

6

32

755

3160

Travel by small diesel car: 1 passenger

81

276

6

16

378

1580

Travel by small diesel car: 2 passengers

54

184

6

11

254

1060

Travel by small diesel car: 3 passengers

41

138

6

8

192

800

Travel by taxi:

21

903

8.5

16

948

3970

Travel by bus:

33

551

7

10

600

920

2510

3900

Travel by tram:

53

525

9

586

2450

Travel by train:

48

245

4

297

885

1240

3700

Travel by 1000 cc motorbike:

95

619

6

20

740

3100

Travel by 250 cc motorbike:

57

431

10

15

513

2150

Travel by 50 cc moped:

21

141

10

40

212

890

Travel by bicycle:

18

23

9

50

35

210

100

Walking:

49

49

100

210

400



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