Mitsubishi Challenger - Handles Like a Pug 206!
Re your biased report on the Mitsubishi Challenger.
What a load of the proverbial!!
I have own a leaf spring Challenger since '98 and this vehicle has out performed a lot of the other so called large and mid sized 4wd's. Tyres, what a load of crap, tyre noise and handling comes down to brand and design, am I not correct, initially Yoko Geolander h/w, 52000ks, now Bf Good rich A/T,so far 35000 ks, no noise, good handling, although different tyre geometry, still very little body roll. Be positive about and knowledgeable about this topic at least!!
Body roll, you ready? I have driven this vehicle to Sydney from the Gold Coast @ 7.5 hours, That's moving, point to point, trusting the tyres and pushing the car all the way, not a miss, and if you think I don't know what handling is get your arse into a Peugeot 206 GTI, that's what I also own and push to the limit, I have skills, and this Challenger is very good at my style of driving.
Four wheel driving. Beach excellent, rough terrain excellent, perform as good if not better than the bigger overdone vehicles Gold Coast - Ayers Rock via Innaminka, Birdsville, Marla, Coober Pedy, Ulara, Alice, Cattlewaterpass, Boulia, Gold Coast, Two weeks 8000klms no problems, new Patrols dust internally through seals dust bunnys inside and air intakes, new L/cruisers, poor corrugation control any speed!!! Dust internally through seals, new Jackaroos and Pathfinders, poor clearance and constantly bogging, Challenger pulled all these vehicles out of everything!!
Braking, I have a non ABS model and it stops great, due to tyre choice I might add, but the brakes are substantial if not to big compared to the drum pathfinders Etc.
In summation Buster, I have converted six friends over to Challengers, all from larger or mid sized fuel gusling, body rolling, noisier, plastic one colour internals, you want a truck? Drive a Jackaroo!!
All vehicles have their bad points and to say that they put the Challenger on this earth for you would be wrong, you stick with your domestic garden variety family wagons that you speak so often of and leave the real writing to the experts, who actually get their work published, not having a go at you!! Just research all vehicles and inclusions and see which comes up better at the day, then drive them, then, write about them, people would respect your positive knowledge more so than your lack of knowledge and negative feedback on vehicles that don't relate, your editor should have told you to go away and write the article again!!.
Steve Atkinson
Um, I am the Editor... And we have tested a Peugeot 206GTi.
Er, Read the Article Again
I just read your latest Performance Determinants ["The Best Performance Determinant"] article and found it to be very interesting and clever. I would like to use these formulas that you worked out. From a power to weight of a particular car I would like to be able to calculate the quarter mile time. If you could please publish this formula then that would be great, thanks.
Sam
Praise
I would just like to say thankyou for such a great on-line site. The articles are great, and especially as I own two VL Turbo Commodores and articles are exactly up my alley. The more tech features, the better. And I have bought a few products through your web page and have found it to be easy, secure and very efficient. I have just put through another order for a DMM.
So keep up the good work everyone associated and you will have my continued support in the future.
Matthew Macauley
Making Pictures Bigger
When I started reading the Performance Determinants article["The Best Performance Determinant"] I thought it was going to give me an equation which I could use to calculate my kW figure from my drag strip times. You have sort of included the equation on the graph, but in the conversion to a jpg, it is not readable. Without the regression equation, I cannot as you state "Get down to your friendly neighbourhood dragstrip and do a run, and have a look at your finishing speed!" and use this to calculate my kW figure. And I cannot calculate out my own equation as I do not have a dataset of 29 cars, their kW figures and their finishing times.
Other than this however, I have enjoyed reading you articles, keep up the good work.
Troy Wilson
All pictures in AutoSpeed can be increased in size by clicking on them, and then made even larger by clicking yet again. The graphs are quite readable when enlarged.
Dollar Shortage
Can you make AutoSpeed a little cheaper, or give concession to those with Centrelink concession cards - underprivileged.
Hans
We believe that at AUS$4.10 a month AutoSpeed is cheap enough for everyone who drives a car.
Unsprung Weight Testing
Just a quick thought - have you ever thought (provided you could get access to them, of course) of doing a comparo of performance with similar cars featuring different unsprung weights? For instance, any differences (I'm not sure how it'd work out) between cars with standard and lightweight flywheels, standard and lightweight braking systems, etc. It'd be interesting, IMHO.
Chris
We have thought of doing a test with different wheel masses, but that is awaiting more financial resources. Thanks for the suggestion.
Wheel Arch Aerodynamic Flows
I was always under the impression that wheel wells were an area of high pressure due to the turbulence generated by the mass of spinning rubber and wheel, hence the flutes behind (on top) the wheel arch on "Group C" race cars. Utilising the low pressure system behind the arch to bleed off the pressure within the wheel well, this slowed the migration of air from wheel well to the under tray and would enhance the venturi system (ground effect). Possibly on production cars the greater volume of space in the wheel well and the greater clearance between tyre and guard allows pressure to be bled off from the side of the guard sufficiently enough to avoid excessive pressure with in the wheel well. But have you ever noticed in wet weather driving the plume of spray that bulges out from the wheel arches on the other cars that are driving at speed? Have you conducted any testing of the specific area with pressure metering equipment? I think wool tufts would only give you half the picture. Do you have any reference material to support high/low pressure systems in the wheel well?
Keep up the good work.
Paul McKelvie
We will be carrying out pressure measuring as the next stage in the testing process, probably in 4-8 weeks or so. In road cars the references that we can find are ambivalent on this point - however, we are sure that we have read in a creditable text of the wheel arch area on road cars being a low pressure area. Race Car Aerodynamics (Katz) shows the pressure varying around a closed wheel, with some areas being high and some areas being low in pressure.
More on Aerodynamics
I am writing to say how much I have been enjoying the series of articles on aero testing cars (starts at "Aero Testing - Part 1"). They have been very informative and interesting.
I was also wondering if it would be possible to include some information on what sort of results could be expected from modifications to a fairly standard car. For example, what differences - if any - in fitting various different aerodynamic aids to a Commodore on its fuel economy/top speed/1/4 mile times/lap times. It would be interesting to know if any real world improvements to drag and or downforce can be made with relatively minor modifications.
I realise you have probably already considered doing this and I understand that it would be a lot of work, but I just thought I would suggest it.
Anyway thanks again for the great articles.
Martin Conway
The differences that you will be able to make to a car less than about ten years old will be minimal, except perhaps in stability. If you are referring to an older car (eg up to the mid-Eighties) the improvements can be substantial, but so generally will be the required bodywork changes. The 'Walkinshaw' VL Commodore is a good example of the magnitude of the changes needed. From the VN up to the VS, Commodore aero was generally very good. The later VT and current model sedan bootlids are poorer. HSV generally also have very good aftermarket aerodynamics on the later Commodores, and so are good role models. We will be doing more testing of cars, and some of those methods will be relevant to your questions.
Closed Loop Spotting
I'm waiting to be paid and low on fuel and trying to keep my car running as fuel efficiently as possible. Have you thought of a DIY kit to detect when the ECU is in closed loop and as close to stoichio as it tries to get? Maybe a little light so you know you're cruising and getting the best fuel economy possible. Just an idea, wouldn't take much modification of say the Jaycar LED a/f meter.
Bryan Collins
Both the LED and Needle mixture meters ["Cheaply Monitoring Air/Fuel Ratios" and "AutoSpeed Needle Mixture Meter - Part 1"] will clearly show when the car is in and out of closed loop by oscillating back and forth rapidly. When it is in closed loop, the mixtures are very close to 14.7:1. The instruments are both quite effective as economy gauges, as you suggest.
Aero Yet Again!
Your articles on aerodynamics have been of great interest to me (enough to pay for! So I signed up!)....
I own a New Beetle here in the US and have been doing a bit of wool testing myself... One of the things in the article not mentioned was what speed you were driving the vehicles. Also, I was wondering what your thoughts would be about building an air dam for the front of the New Beetle to keep the air out from under... Would it increase or decrease the problems at the rear of the car?
Thanks for the great information!
Gary Miyakawa
Wool tuft testing is best done at around 70 - 80 km/h. Front air dams work on almost any car except those with undercar venturis and diffusers - effectively no common road cars. So yes, a front dam is usually a good move, but you'd also want to decrease rear lift as well.
It Goes faster With the Cruise Control in the Same Position!
I read your review of Militec-1 from your on-line back issues with great interest, since I've enjoyed over 200,000 miles of pedal-to-the-metal driving in my 1987 Buick Grand National with absolutely no engine problems of any kind. I still have the original turbo also, which is extremely rare due to bearing failures from excessive oil temperatures.
I've also experienced going 4 mph faster, after Militec-1 was added, (with the cruise control set in the exact same position) on a car with a digital speedometer.
I also performed a friction test between 2 metal surfaces using a ¼hp electric motor, and witnessed zero friction with no oil lubrication (once the surfaces reached 150 degrees and the Militec-1 bonded to the metal surfaces). This could not be reproduced with any other oil additive I tested (even when using 10 times more of each product than I did with Militec-1).
Militec-1 really works. It's unfortunate your tests were all attempting to correct pre-existing problems (something Militec-1 is not designed for or promoted as doing), so that readers who trust your opinion will miss out on an outstanding product. You should consider retesting the product under more realistic conditions (ie friction test). You'd be impressed!
In case you're wondering...I am a private US citizen who has absolutely no affiliation of any kind to anyone selling or producing Militec-1. Interestingly enough, I am probably one of the world's biggest sceptics about most everything, until it is proven to me.
Randy Fox
The Weekly Job Hunter
Hi, My name is David and I am a car enthusiast!!! I would love to take photos for your website, I'm not a qualified photographer but I believe that I can produce good photos as I love taking pictures as a hobby. What state is AutoSpeed located? Do you have a postal mail address?
David Ninkovic
Have a look at http://www.autospeed.com/jobs.html. We're always happy to receive packages of words and pics for consideration.
Missing the Joke...
Look at this piece of crap Nissan sells in Australia!
Look at this turd - "New Car Test - Nissan Gloria Turbo Brougham"
This is actually a new car!!!! It looks like something that was made in 1982.
From http://forums.corvetteforum.com
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